2023-07-22 - Interview Dr. David Sinclair - Reversing Aging: The Revolutionary Discoveries of David Sinclair

    From Longevity Wiki



    0:05 thank you very much for coming out on yet another chilly winter night here for
    0:10 us um so Dr Sinclair I thought I might start
    0:18 with something that one probably shouldn't do in polite company
    0:24 okay what is that I'm going to pull the audience
    0:30 how old do you think David Sinclair is
    0:36 29. 52. 45.
    0:42 48. [Laughter]

    Biological Age

    0:50 um now of course it I mean people's looks can be very misleading in
    0:56 terms of age so maybe a better way to put it and I will ask I'll turn it back to you
    1:01 uh Dr Sinclair um the audience is actually at a disadvantage because they have to make
    1:07 this judgment just based on you know what they see but biologically age is a different thing so how much how old
    1:14 would you say you are biologically well
    1:19 I didn't say how old I am but I do use a number of different tests to see how I'm
    1:24 doing and I do that as a role model because I think we cannot optimize what we don't measure so I've been measuring
    1:30 myself for over the last 15 years to see what works in lifestyle and other things
    1:37 that I do as a as a scientist and hopefully a role model for the future
    1:44 so the tests indicate across the board that I'm about a decade
    1:50 younger biologically than I am chronologically I certainly feel younger and my partner
    1:57 would say I act younger uh often to my own detriment but it's very possible to
    2:03 be younger than your actual birthday candles would suggest and there is a Harvard study that shows that if
    2:10 you do just the right things that we might talk about later you can expect to live on average another 14 years and if
    2:17 you did not do those things um so I try to do all the good things as a role model and hopefully help Inspire
    2:23 others to do the same yeah so in the interests of transparency and what I would do in our regular show I would say


    2:31 you know renowned scientist Dr David Sinclair 53 is here joining us today so
    2:39 there you go um I'm 47 by the way let's put it out there just to show everyone I I will
    2:46 expose myself to the same amount of transparency but um in in whatever you
    2:51 think your lifetime might be how much do you think average human
    2:57 longevity might change in that time well it's changing every
    3:02 day uh in fact every year you stay alive you get another three months of life because technology is advancing and it's
    3:09 been going up across the world uh in advanced Nations uh continuously over
    3:15 the last 200 years and it there's no sign that it's slowing down if anything it's going to speed up
    3:21 um and so I think that that there is a chance that the first person to live 250 is already with us on
    3:27 the planet and not only that even if technology doesn't go exponential which I think it's about
    3:34 to even with today's March of science someone born today has
    3:41 a 50 50 chance of getting to 100. as opposed to right now someone who's a hundred
    3:47 has made it through you know about 98 of people of that age have died already so Queen Elizabeth she was really lucky in
    3:54 the future it'll be normal to reach her age now when you say someone born today it's highly dependent on born where
    3:59 right I mean I don't imagine a yemeni child born today as a likelihood of living to being a hundred a 50 50 chance
    4:07 right so the good news though is that the world is increasingly getting enough nutrition
    4:13 to be able to do well and and uh diseases overall infectious diseases are
    4:18 coming down and in the future more and more people will have access to health care but you
    4:23 you're right the problem right now is that there are Technologies and knowledge and Lifestyles that we know
    4:29 keep you younger and healthier they're just unevenly distributed even within this country right so you said we might

    When did your interest in aging begin

    4:37 sort of be at um a sense in a sense a Tipping Point in terms of the acceleration of uh
    4:45 longevity I'm going to just keep that as teas for folks right now because before we go forward I actually wanted to go
    4:51 backward a little bit and ask you sort of to tell us the story briefly if you
    4:57 could about when your curiosity your passion I mean what's become your life work in terms of
    5:04 human aging when did that first begin uh well my interest in aging began when
    5:11 everybody's interest starts when you realize that your parents are Mortals and will die one day that's a really sad
    5:19 day we all have experienced that we all know about death and usually it happens around the age of
    5:24 four or five that we realize that this is true uh for me I was raised in part by my
    5:29 grandmother my mother worked so my grandmother um uh did take care of me and and she was
    5:36 the sort of person that uh liked to shock uh people and she shocked me when
    5:43 I was four years old she said uh well I asked for the question um they called her Vera not grandmother
    5:48 Vera will you always be around and of course I'm thinking
    5:53 say yes say yes because I can't live without you and she said no I'm gonna die we're all gonna die your cat's gonna
    6:00 die first then your parents are gonna die then you'll die
    6:05 uh and uh so that was traumatic I remember exactly where I was when it
    6:10 happened what the carpet felt like it was prickly 1970s carpet um and for most of us we do experience
    6:17 something that traumatic I witnessed it in my children I have three kids and the oldest uh cried for a week at night when
    6:24 I told her the same thing and uh unfortunately we all go through that but most of us
    6:31 can forget about it because it's traumatic we don't think about death every day it's quite depressing but I couldn't
    6:37 forget about it uh it stayed with me because largely I felt like it was unfair why would there be
    6:44 a conscious species that knew it was going to die that just
    6:49 doesn't seem right to me and I knew that people were working on diseases cancer heart disease Alzheimer's this is what I
    6:56 always wanted to do I wanted to grow up and be a doctor but why would why would we ignore aging aging is the worst that
    7:02 can happen to us so that's how I became hooked can we put up a we've got a picture of

    Vera Sinclair

    7:08 of uh Vera of your grandmother um and I just want to uh read a quick
    7:16 passage from your from your book lifespan if you could about her uh if I could read it for you um you write that
    7:24 Vera sheltered Jews in World War II lived in primitive New Guinea was removed from Bondi Beach for wearing a
    7:30 bikini the end of her but at the end of her life was hard to watch and she said this is just the way it goes but the
    7:37 person truly that she truly was had been dead for many years at that point
    7:43 can you tell us a little bit more about that I'll try to do it without getting upset
    7:50 uh I'm not the only one that watches their loved ones tragically go on in a on a
    7:56 decline typically the last 10 years of life are not something we'd wish on our enemies let alone our loved ones and I saw that
    8:02 with Vera that she was vivacious you can see that in these pictures that are shown behind us she was so full of life
    8:10 uh I had such a great time mentally you know I was I was six to ten years old during the
    8:17 Glory Days with her and she was also mentally six to ten she was a child herself
    8:23 it turns out my father her son was taken away from her because she had my father when she was 15 years old so I was
    8:29 really her first born that she could raise and we had had a great time she would drive down the road in the car
    8:35 dancing to music you know no seat belts in those days and so I learned to to
    8:41 love life the way she did but then to see the last 10 years of her life she actually she fell on a little uh Ripple
    8:47 in her carpet in her apartment broke her hip and uh was never the same and this
    8:52 is often what happens to older people is something really small like oh you trip or you don't hang onto the handrail that
    8:58 does them in and it was really tragic to watch someone who was so full of life who I admired I ended up going on that
    9:05 downhill and this is everybody's experience typically that someone knows someone they love who goes through that
    9:11 suffering that pain and there's nothing yet we can do about it

    Science of Aging

    9:17 well uh I want to actually there's so much that you're saying right now Dr
    9:22 Sinclair that I want to pursue but um I'm gonna hold it to the to the end here
    9:27 because I want to give the science uh it's it's adequate do here
    9:33 we have an illustration uh another one I should say from uh Catherine uh Delphia
    9:39 am I saying her name correctly yes Delphia um that addresses what we do know right
    9:45 now about the science of Aging so can you can you walk us through this a little bit give us the the brief
    9:51 synopsis of what it is we know about why the human body ages
    9:57 yeah so the field of Aging has gone through many Transformations uh when I
    10:02 started I came to MIT in Boston in 1995 and the Dogma was take some antioxidants
    10:08 and you'll be good uh that's no longer the case we've moved on and in the the mid 1990s to late 1990s at MIT we and
    10:16 others around the world discovered genes that control aging you can tweak one gene in an animal a worm or a mouse or a
    10:23 fly and now we know in humans one change can make a big difference and so that was a rebel revolution revolution as
    10:30 well and in the early 2000s when I started my lab at Harvard we and others again discovered that the environment
    10:36 how the organisms live or how we live turns on those genes that controls aging and that was really important but the
    10:43 problem was we're all fighting as scientists my genes more important than your Gene David you work on the sirtuins
    10:48 they suck you should work on mtor and then it no really it's Amp kinase it's important and you know scientists always
    10:55 want to rush to not always but often want to be the the center of attention but what was really important in early
    11:01 2000s was a couple of papers that were written to unify the field and they said
    11:07 all right everybody's everybody's right there are eight causes
    11:12 of Aging and these genes work on many of these and so let's calm down let's come
    11:18 together and so there was a chart that was drawn it was a pie chart where everybody's favorite Theory of Aging was
    11:24 put in there equally and it was happy times but of course they're not going to be equal so some of the things that are
    11:30 on that pie chart are loss of stem cells loss of nutrient sensing so high blood sugar for example senescence so zombie
    11:38 cells that accumulate DNA damage is a traditional one and in there is epigenetics which we'll
    11:45 definitely get into which is what I work on but these what are called Hallmarks of Aging was a unified
    11:51 theory of why we age but to me it wasn't satisfying because I knew we're not
    11:57 aging because of a pie chart we're aging because there's probably something that's happening to cause all of those
    12:02 things to happen and I've been looking for that ever since okay so then tell me more about the the epigenetics portion


    12:09 um of this your area of focus yeah it's it's been an evolution but it
    12:14 really started in 1995 when I got to MIT uh the lab of Leonard guarante which is
    12:20 still over here uh in Boston discovered that there are genes that
    12:26 control aging and yeast and there was one called Sir II that gave rise to a whole field now
    12:32 and I arrived just as they discovered a yeast mutant that lived longer and they didn't understand why but it turns out
    12:38 this surging sir number two the it's an acronym for silent
    12:45 information regulator number two and what's important about that name is the word information
    12:51 and really what SO2 does is it controls whether a gene is silent switched off or
    12:58 in its absence turned on and in yeast as the yeast get older
    13:04 the inability to control the pattern of which genes are on and off is a Hallmark
    13:10 of yeast aging leads to their them getting old and from that Discovery led
    13:15 to what I've called the information Theory of Aging and that's the idea that it's not the loss of proteins or or
    13:23 defects in the cell membrane these are all known to happen what's really going
    13:28 on is that cells lose their ability to control which genes should be switched
    13:34 on and off now when we're when we're embryos and we're young foreign
    13:42 cells know how to be cells skin cells have the same DNA as a brain cell and a
    13:49 liver cell and what makes them different is which genes are switched on and off and we have about 20 000 of those and
    13:56 these surgeons that we found in yeast control that pattern and the idea of the
    14:02 information Theory of Aging is that that pattern gets disrupted by insults to the cell that such as broken chromosomes
    14:09 which we have now shown drives this process and one way to think of it the analogy
    14:15 is like a compact disc and for the young people listening and watching these were really awesome little plastic discs you
    14:22 could put 10 songs on they were really exciting but the analogy uh with aging is that the music is still on the CD
    14:30 but the scratches are making it hard to read the music so in biology what this
    14:35 means is that the DNA with the genes is still intact but the body can't read it and that's called uh the epigenome the
    14:43 readers of the DNA are the epigenome versus The genome which is the DNA and what that actually means is now now
    14:49 when I look at an older person they might be frail gray hair they can't see
    14:55 very well I'm pretty sure that the instructions to be young are still in that person
    15:02 they the cells in that person just don't know how to read the DNA correctly which has led us to the idea that we should be
    15:09 able to reset the body in the same way we'd reinstall software on an old computer and get the body to work like
    15:15 it was young again then that what would be the mechanisms

    Reversing Aging

    15:21 theoretically to do that that reset or that that sort of software update right
    15:28 or polish off the scratches yeah if you're still in the 1980s well we didn't know if it was true that
    15:35 the information the epigenetic information not the genetic was still intact there was no precedent for for
    15:42 that existence um we'd learn in the the early 2000s
    15:47 uh well mid mid 2000s that you could reset the age of a cell back to zero uh shinyo yamanako won the Nobel
    15:55 Prize for that and uh 2016. but what wasn't clear to anybody was
    16:01 whether you could partially reset a cell from 70 years old back to 25 without
    16:06 going all the way to zero which you don't want to do you do not want to be age zero you will be the world's biggest tumor
    16:13 so we had this idea that maybe the cell has a memory of being young there's some
    16:18 information in there that we don't know about and if we turn on embryonic genes it's just some of them and we in in our
    16:25 paper that we published in 2020 we used three genes uh short the acronym is O S
    16:31 and K we put osk into cells and we found that they did go back not to zero but
    16:36 they stopped at about 75 percent age reversal and those cells could now have
    16:42 the same um function as they did when they were young and they stayed young it wasn't
    16:47 just oh we had to keep these genes on it was a it was a reset and the cells became young and
    16:54 functioned young and then we use that technology we tested it on the eye of a mouse we let mice get old or we gave
    17:00 them glaucoma which isn't a very common age-related disease and we put in these three genes for a
    17:05 couple of months these three embryonic genes that are normally not on in mammals and guess what happened
    17:12 they went back in age from an old mouse which is two years back to a much younger age and their
    17:19 blindness was cured and the cells at the back of the either nerve cells became young for the first
    17:25 time and it was a permanent reset and now we actually know that you can keep
    17:30 resetting so I see a future where we can reset parts of the body maybe the whole
    17:35 body we take a medicine we go back 10 years and the doctor says well come back in another 10 years and we'll do it
    17:41 again of the the mouse experiment that you were talking about just now

    Mouse Experiment

    17:49 uh and so is is this is this is this is demonstrating or what
    17:55 you were discussing about the reset in the in the audience yeah exactly this is actually a different experiment that was
    18:02 the first one that we did but it's very similar in this case we had a damaged optic nerve in the mouse and only very
    18:08 young mice can repair their Vision if you damage the optic nerve similar to if you if you break your spine your uh your
    18:15 spinal cord you're not going to walk again yet and we we reverse the age of the eye of these mice and the nerves grew back to
    18:22 the brain all the way back and that's never happened before and so that was the first indication that we could truly
    18:28 restore the ability to heal that's only present in very young individuals
    18:34 and we measured the age of those cells and they were young we can now we have a clock and we can measure everybody's age
    18:41 now pretty easily for just a few dollars and those mice that became younger the
    18:46 other thing that's shown in this diagram that's interesting is that there are enzymes that control that clock that we
    18:53 measure there are chemicals on the DNA that we can read that tell us how old the cell is biologically
    18:58 and those enzymes when we got rid of them they're called teds then the mice
    19:03 did not get their Vision back so we needed that system to reset the clock to
    19:09 be able to get Vision back so it just the analogy how important is this well it's as if we had a clock on the wall
    19:16 and normally if you turn the hands back of a clock nothing happens
    19:22 time doesn't change but in this experiment time changed when we reversed the clock which was really quite a
    19:28 discovery the clock uh the Horvath clock is that

    Horvath Clock

    19:33 right yeah so Steve forabeth gets to name it he was one of the first scientists and so Steve discovered that
    19:40 these chemicals on the genome change some of them change predictably over time and he used machine learning to
    19:47 find out which of those sites so there are millions of these what are called DNA methylations or these are chemicals
    19:52 that accumulate on DNA and a few hundred of those are very predictive of your biological age
    20:00 and also can predict when you're going to die so I could take your DNA a cheek swab and tell you
    20:06 roughly if you don't change your life when you're gonna die and sometimes even what you're going to die of so this
    20:12 clock has revolutionized aging research because before all we could do is look at somebody or look at a mouse and say
    20:18 hey it looks kind of young looks kind of old but now we can very accurately tell you how old it is
    20:23 so so bear with me for a moment

    Biological Failures

    20:30 a couple summers ago I went to Bryce Canyon National Park and they have a they have a Grove of
    20:36 Bristlecone Pine there right a species that's also known as the
    20:42 Methuselah tree because they live for thousands of years and then the oldest one in this
    20:47 particular little Grove was 1900 years old and but it was it was like a baby essentially right and
    20:54 and I was thinking in nature species like that organisms like that
    21:01 are exceedingly rare as far as I can tell if if I'm wrong please correct me there's um
    21:08 like one species of shark whose name I forget Greenland the Greenland shark that can live for like half a millennia
    21:14 something like that right yeah or more yeah yeah but there aren't I mean again
    21:21 correct me if I'm wrong but there aren't that many so I'm wondering if if Aging
    21:26 in and of itself if the theory is that there's something fundamentally uh if aging is a sign of a of a biological
    21:34 failure um one would presume that with Evolution biological failures would be evolved out
    21:41 so why don't we have more species that live for extraordinarily long periods of
    21:46 time oh there's a very simple answer we only live as long as we need to to ensure the species survival
    21:53 Evolution doesn't care about us as individuals unfortunately and if species are preyed upon like a
    21:59 mouse or or an insect it will breed rapidly and die young because they put
    22:04 all their energy into breathing species that are at the top of the food chain can afford to grow slowly
    22:10 reproduce slowly and live long and and put effort into building a robust body and you know we've been at the top of
    22:16 the food chain not for not that long so we're still evolving longer life spans give us another six million years we'll
    22:23 definitely live longer but we don't have time for that we need to re-engineer ourselves somehow but there are species
    22:30 like you say that they are relatively rare but they're they're quite a lot hundreds of species that live longer
    22:35 than us a lot of reptiles birds even uh definitely whales uh who by the way
    22:41 whales are very similar to us very very genetically similar so you know it's not just a tree we don't have to become
    22:46 trees to live a long time we just need to find what are the few Gene changes in in Wales that give them the long life
    22:52 and a whale is full of cells they don't get cancer for sometimes hundreds of years there are tricks to this
    22:59 um so I when often I'm asked well maybe we humans are at our limit 122 is the
    23:05 longest uh at least ostensibly the longest lived human that's recorded
    23:11 um they say well that's it that's all we can do and my answer to that is well
    23:17 we're just getting started there are lots of species that can live 200 300 years that are not that different from
    23:22 us some live thousands so there is no no law of biology that says we must age
    23:28 there isn't anyone who says we have to grow old doesn't know what they're talking about there are ways of preserving the body we
    23:35 see it in the natural world and we just need to learn how that how do they do it and one of the interesting things is if
    23:40 you look at species that live a long time like whales and these sharks and Bristlecone Pines they're epigenome the
    23:47 structures that control the DNA have a lot more stable epigenome there
    23:53 are information on how to control the genes switches are very stable which
    23:58 fits with the information Theory of Aging so if we can find ways to control our cells aging process and and be able
    24:05 to maintain that youthful pattern of which genes are on and off like a whale and a tree we should be able to live
    24:12 hundreds of years if not thousands but so but you said that that species tend

    Human Lifespan

    24:17 to live on average as long as is needed to reproduce
    24:23 but what your positing in the future is living is
    24:28 human beings living much much much much longer than needed to reproduce so you actually are
    24:35 really pushing against The evolutionary requirement for the lifespan of of the
    24:41 human organism fantastic why not everything else about human no I just want to be I want I want
    24:48 to be clear on that because this isn't some this isn't just like we want to improve people it's not just that not
    24:54 it's it's something else you really are pushing against what you're saying is the evolutionary rule for every other
    25:00 species ever right but what else you know we've been
    25:06 doing that for thousands of years as a species what about this room is natural the air isn't natural the temperature is
    25:13 natural clothes are not natural speaking into a microphone is definitely not natural we are an unnatural species
    25:19 is what we do so controlling aging is what we do I would argue that controlling aging
    25:25 is more natural than not controlling it it surprises me that we as a species have ignored it for so long if an alien
    25:31 came down and looked at us they'd say okay we're pretty impressed with equals mc squared and pi to a billion decimal
    25:38 places but you're missing the most important problem that you face on the planet and that is you'll get sick you
    25:45 know at 70 years old you're getting sick that's craziness we solved aging Millennia ago what are you doing
    25:52 so but so because I just hear a lot of terms that maybe in my mind they're becoming conflated and you can help me
    25:58 um parse them a little because you know from the moment one could say from the moment the sperm
    26:05 meets the egg the aging process is essential begun it does begin a conception we can measure that now Okay
    26:10 so by that definition it's not aging per se that you are trying to do something
    26:17 about because obviously we need to be born we need to grow we need to mature
    26:23 it's old age and the ravages of old age that you're concerned about that you're concerned with
    26:29 I'm concerned about aging even in teenagers we are aging at every stage of our life every day how we live matters
    26:35 and accumulates so if you are in college and you don't take care of your body that will show up decades later as
    26:42 sickness and old age there is no escaping that it's not that you can be really bad and then at age 80 start
    26:48 living well it's cumulative and that clock is ticking every day and so with that knowledge a lot of
    26:55 young people in their 20s are paying attention to this kind of research knowing that they need to start early okay so I guess I'm just confused though

    Aging in Teenagers

    27:02 because that's is that simply trying to live a more healthful life or is it you
    27:08 said that you're concerned about aging in teenagers are aging we're all aging even babies
    27:14 are aging and the way we raise our children even in the mother's womb is ticking that that hovath clock forward
    27:21 which will cause issues later in life uh and so the
    27:28 teenagers even though they're still developing and getting older um although they look like they're still
    27:34 functioning very well there are changes to that clock that will affect them later in life now I'm not saying that
    27:40 the kind of things that we do as as midlife adults should be done by teenagers of course absolutely not but I
    27:47 do think that things like obesity and the lack of exercise for just to name two things that the teenagers suffer
    27:54 from due to modern society uh will cause problems in their health many decades
    27:59 later hmm um sorry I'm just I'm gonna discussion on this a little because I just I
    28:06 I I it's not that I'm confused I just I think there's a gap in my understanding because

    Diseases of Aging

    28:12 you know there is there's a lot there's been a conception for a long time uh that
    28:19 the the disease you said this earlier like the the diseases of cancer heart
    28:24 disease Etc these are obviously things that we are we don't want to get right and we are spending trillions of dollars
    28:32 to to to cure to Stave off to treat
    28:37 um I don't know sometimes I look at
    28:42 especially things like cancer as in some people the sort of inevitable endpoint
    28:49 of life right because if it has to do with you know cellular reproduction right that that you have to die of
    28:56 something and a lot of people are going to die of cancer so uh I guess what I'm saying is people
    29:03 please forgive me about this because it's going to sound cruel but my you know my mother has uh she's got
    29:08 peritoneal cancer um and in total transparency my father died in October right so you have to die
    29:17 of something and I guess what I'm curious about is are you when you push your vision to its farthest extreme are
    29:22 you saying that you feel like people should not die ever
    29:28 or that all these diseases that we're trying to fight should be completely eradicated for what so that we live forever no
    29:35 absolutely not I'm not saying we should live forever I am saying that we have a chance to
    29:40 postpone illness and suffering by tackling what's causing illness and suffering which is Aging for too long
    29:48 we've been focused on the end products of Aging cancer heart disease Alzheimer's these are 80 to 90 percent
    29:54 caused by the aging process so we're really sticking Band-Aids at the end of
    29:59 life on these problems when we're missing the main point that's driving these even cancer young people tend not
    30:06 to get cancer because their bodies are killing cancer cells in their body every day so if you could take an 80 year old and
    30:12 make it 20 make the person 20 then they probably wouldn't get cancer either you'd have a very strong immune system
    30:18 same for heart disease same for Alzheimer's we're now reversing Aging in mice in the brain and their dementia
    30:25 goes away so I I believe that the best way to prevent and also to treat diseases of
    30:30 aging and even damage like those damaged eyeballs in the mice is to keep cells
    30:36 young so that they know how to function optimally and take care of us and when we do that I think that those diseases that cause suffering lead in life
    30:43 in billions of people yeah that will go away because the body will be young and can fight those diseases
    30:50 so what would people die of well they'll probably still die from the same diseases but much later and quicker
    30:55 the longer somebody lives the quicker they die with less suffering and the less burden on the economy that is a
    31:01 fact and that's what I'm hoping for for everybody yeah but what I'm curious is though is

    Health Care

    31:07 the longer they live the the quicker they die
    31:12 um I mean the flip side of that is especially here in the U.S health care System but 50 of our health care dollars
    31:17 goes to taking care of people in the last year of their lives so whether they die quickly or not we're still spending
    31:24 a vast sum of money in that last slice right I mean that that is true and uh but what
    31:31 also you we should appreciate is it's somebody who gets sick at age 50 or 60 and then spends 10 20 years being taken
    31:38 care of and there are a lot of people like that as well and I don't think that that's necessary actually that
    31:44 with technology that's available now not everybody but will be the scans and the
    31:49 DNA tests cancer is largely preventable at least a lot of it can be detected decades before it
    31:55 actually shows up and we get sick same with heart disease very good medicines not so much the brain but we're working on that there is a future where
    32:03 even without the age reversal technology we will be able to prevent the major Killers for a long while a lot a long
    32:10 time beyond what we currently do the way medicines practice now I think is very medieval we see a doctor maybe once a
    32:17 year we go in they say how you feeling feeling okay to get some sleep you're getting exercise
    32:22 that's how it's been done for hundreds of years what we now need to do is to be able to monitor the body not once a year
    32:28 but every second and there are ways to do that I wear monitors sometimes that measure my body every thousandth of a
    32:34 second and predict can predict if I'm going to have a heart attack in the future if I have cancer and these things
    32:39 are coming and those Technologies combined with the Aging research that we and others are doing will guarantee for
    32:46 most people an extra decade or two can you talk more about that because um there is a whole culture right of

    Bio Monitoring

    32:53 people who are like just constantly bio-monitoring uh themselves and uh and
    32:59 in fact it's it's growing rapid rapidly we are all carrying devices in our
    33:04 pockets or handbags right now that can do a lot of this um you don't even have to like
    33:10 physically attach it to your body but um it wasn't that long you've been talking about this for quite some time it wasn't
    33:16 that long ago where people kind of looked at you at a scans about it oh that's true yeah in my book I talk about
    33:22 having a glucose monitor which in those days recently just pre-covered it was
    33:28 weird to have a monetary on yourself unless you had type 2 diabetes or type 1. now there's a whole Trend where
    33:35 people want to know what's going on in their bodies and the reason for wanting to do that is I make the case that we we
    33:42 know more about how our cars are functioning that we know about our bodies we have a dashboard there's computers that monitor things all the
    33:48 time but we fly blind with our bodies why is that we should be no we should know how
    33:54 things are going not just to alert us if we're going to get sick or if there's something we need to see a doctor for but to know if
    34:01 changes in our lifestyle are working everybody's different I'm often asked what should I do and there are some
    34:07 general rules but we're all very different we're different genders different DNA different epigenomes we
    34:14 also have different microbiomes and we also are tolerant of different Lifestyles I don't like exercise some
    34:19 people love it so we're all different and if you don't monitor yourself in some way you have no idea if what you're
    34:25 doing is working you know um it my brother lives in Palo Alto and


    34:31 he in fact was talking to me about many friends he has that wears like the constant glucose monitoring and there's
    34:37 a whole sort of like like biohacking uh world out there
    34:44 um the the maybe I'm just influenced a little bit
    34:50 by the conversations I've had with my brother but the whole idea that like microsecond to microsecond we can
    34:55 optimize that's the language of Silicon Valley right optimizing the machine of
    35:01 the body in order to produce the most perfect result being whatever you want it to be
    35:06 um for those of us who don't live in that world where we're constant constantly thinking about it can that also produce
    35:13 some anxiety a little right because like you know I would say that part of what I think is
    35:19 one of the beauties of of um of the human body is that like we're this wonderful homeostatic machines right where like we
    35:28 we go through highs and lows of whatever system you want but overall we kind of attain some kind of balance I mean how
    35:34 healthy is it to monitor yourself every second of microsecond of the day and
    35:40 night yeah well I'm not looking at the data all the time okay but but the computer that gets the data is and
    35:46 that's what we want we want AI systems or at least a a nurse or some other practitioner who can monitor hundreds if
    35:53 not thousands of people's um readouts and if and I've seen this these devices exist you stick them on
    36:00 there are screens and there are hundreds of people and if there's an alert that somebody has an arrhythmia or is
    36:06 developing uh an infection these things pick these things up they can listen to you they
    36:12 can tell if you're getting depressed they can tell if you're you have early Parkinson's the screen lights up in
    36:17 Orange alert and shows which which tissue might be the kidneys alert a lot
    36:22 alert and so I'm not monitoring it but I feel comfortable that somebody's paying attention and if I get cancer or can
    36:29 have a heart attack I'd Rather somebody know about it that can help me adjust but it can become it can be a habit
    36:37 producing I think um it can be a bit of a hobby to monitor yourself I'm guilty
    36:42 of that but there's something in between for the average person where Flying Blind medieval style is is really
    36:49 not going to ensure a healthy long life and then there's there's me who's science seeing the heck out of myself
    36:54 there's something in between where you can forget about it for months and it it's in the background of your life but
    37:01 why do that it's not just about the future of life I'm not doing this actually to live longer anyone who's
    37:07 seen me drive my car knows that to be true I'm really just very curious about where can we be as a species in the
    37:13 future and try to get that future to be earlier so billions of people can live better and the living better is very
    37:19 important if we optimize our bodies for glucose levels just that we will have a
    37:24 better day I learned by monitoring my glucose that I was eating too often I was getting
    37:30 highs and lows and these lows are when you get hangry and you you have this brain fog and then you feel like you
    37:36 need a snack and then you eat a snack and you spike your sugar up again and this roller coaster through the day is
    37:41 really not pleasant most people live like that they're hungry they eat they're hungry they eat I now have been
    37:47 able to figure out how my body responds and I don't feel hungry for most of the day and then I have a really big dinner and I can concentrate much better than
    37:54 thinking about food all the time I want you to know that this is exactly the opposite of what Dan buettner told us


    37:59 last week yeah I'm happy to debate dad because he talked about front loading
    38:05 your calorie consumption in the in the day right having uh bigger meals in the morning and in the midday and not eating
    38:11 as much in the evening and also I think um many doctors would say that rather
    38:16 than having a big meal at the end of the day it actually is better to have
    38:21 smaller meals but healthful meals right like maybe what
    38:27 I'm not gonna hold myself up as a paragon of healthy eating I'm going to be honest because sometimes when I I
    38:32 have a snack I know my glucose levels are shooting up because I'm having a unhealthy snack but but what you're what
    38:39 you're saying though is actually seems a little contrary to what a lot of
    38:45 the the medical advice that that people are getting yeah I agree I think the the
    38:51 idea that we should be nibbling on food the whole day is wrong for Longevity if your goal is
    38:59 is to never be hungry uh then that's fine but my goal and I hope many viewers that you can spend your 80s and 90s
    39:06 playing tennis or hiking whatever you want to do if that's your goal eating three full meals a day with snacks is
    39:12 not going to get you there most likely the science says and I'm always based on science not on what I want I would love
    39:19 to eat three meals a day but the science says that in animals and increasingly in human studies
    39:25 having a a window of eating is better it
    39:30 doesn't it doesn't have to be at night I just like to eat at night no I don't feel hungry in the morning but some people like morning so even late night
    39:36 but it's that that gap of about 18 hours where the body isn't in a Fed state that
    39:41 go the body goes into this fasted state that turns on these longevity genes to protect us now that doesn't mean you
    39:47 have to be Draconian about it you're allowed to have a little bit of food I nibble on chocolate and nuts and I'm not always
    39:55 without food uh but try to put your meals into a smaller amount of time per
    40:01 day and that I think is the best thing we know about scientifically no the the clarification is important so you're
    40:07 talking about a window and also a caloric restriction oh right well not so much actually you know it's when you eat
    40:13 not so much how much not how much yeah it was a really good experiment by Rafael De Cabo NIH okay he gave mice
    40:20 three different diets lots of fat and carbs and protein and he was thinking he'd figure out what is the best
    40:26 combination of all those things and it turns out it didn't matter what the mouse ate it was when they ate and if he
    40:32 crammed the period where he gave them the food into an hour per day they lived 30 longer no matter what they were
    40:38 eating and to me that was that convinced me that we should focus more on on when we eat yeah but what you eat is also
    40:45 very important of course and that combination I think is the is the key you wanted to debate Dan buettner okay
    40:51 that's interesting we should have done that um for the next time
    40:56 for the record we tried Steven our producer tried to do try to make that happen I'm sorry you couldn't make it
    41:02 happen I will say that what what Dan says about the types of food to eat uh and the blues the plant-based is
    41:07 completely congruent with what my research says okay what would you debate him on though or
    41:14 or what what are the what what does he say that you find debatable well we we have we have a lot of we have
    41:21 a lot more in common than we have about I think we could debate whether it's uh it's more fun to eat in the morning or night
    41:29 I think you'd find a pretty boring argument because we're both in sync on uh being plant-based uh eating plants
    41:37 that are full of what are called polyphenols and plant molecules that that turn on the body's defenses so yeah
    41:44 I don't think it's uh it's worth us debating though um no okay I think I

    Cold therapy

    41:51 think it's definitely worth it but um a couple other things that you have talked about for for many years which are
    41:57 becoming more commonplace so uh we talked about bio monitoring essentially
    42:04 the sort of keep restricting the or finding that window of time to eat
    42:10 I want to call it fasting is that just different than the the window of time that you were just talking about it's
    42:17 also known as fasting okay well um now but I'm finding in this conversation
    42:22 getting clear definitions of uh of the ideas that we're talking about is quite
    42:27 important cold therapy meaning while you can expose your skin to brief
    42:36 bouts of very cold temperature four degrees Celsius cold water bath with ice in it people typically do for three
    42:43 minutes or so what about it
    42:50 is there evidence that it has a positive effect on lifespan
    42:56 not in humans in animals if you chill them like mice they will live longer
    43:02 um somebody did a study and found out the hard way that if you put them individually they don't live as long as
    43:08 if no they live longer as individuals than with someone that keeps them warm
    43:14 so but being humans not well well known but what is known about humans is that we have surprisingly we have what's
    43:20 called Brown fat which is was thought to only exist in newborns so newborns don't
    43:25 shiver they have brown fat and that generates the Heat and it was thought there was just babies that have that but
    43:31 we are brown fat it's found largely on our backs and when we're cold when we
    43:36 expose our skin to cold it revs up that fat and can actually turn white fat into beige fat which is brownish and that's
    43:43 very healthy fat that's the kind of fat that you want it's highly metabolic and
    43:48 it seems to secrete these factors that circulate through our bodies that improves metabolism
    43:53 so how many of the things um or the the lifestyle changes that
    43:59 your your research seems to indicate might uh increase longevity how many of these
    44:05 things do you practice in your life most of them um such as
    44:11 uh well so I I try to eat really well I was and still inspired by my partner
    44:18 who's a a chef and a nutritionist uh Serena poon and so about
    44:24 12 months ago maybe 15 uh she came into my kitchen and threw out most of the
    44:30 food and we started from scratch and I used to be on a Mediterranean diet with a focus on red wine and cheese I thought
    44:36 that would be very healthy turns out Serena says that's not true uh and it actually turns out to be to be true
    44:43 because after I changed my diet to be plant focused and eating a lot of fresh food and limiting the dairy and cutting
    44:51 out alcohol my blood biomarkers that indicate my health and age have improved dramatically hmm
    44:58 you know so Dr Sinclair I have to say uh in in Reading looking at your book and
    45:05 reading what I could about your research that's been published Etc there are many people who would who say that the the
    45:12 science that you're doing at the bench is phenomenal right it's really pushing the
    45:19 bounds of what we know and understand about the human body
    45:24 um some of those folks who I will note wouldn't give their names have also been
    45:29 quoted in articles about you as they wish you
    45:35 would just stick to the science and not talk about aging or longevity in the way that you
    45:42 do saying that we could live past 150 so even tonight you said even it could be
    45:48 even be longer than that saying that we can basically stop stop aging what's
    45:54 your response to that I think Everyone's entitled to their own
    46:00 opinion and and in fact speak for themselves and I stick to the facts though I think I
    46:05 should be able to uh project in my opinion what the future looks like and I also I like to
    46:12 communicate I think that our research mostly is paid by taxpayers and
    46:17 taxpayers have a right to know what we're doing and also have someone who is in the field to interpret what the field
    46:24 is doing because most people don't have access to the world's scientific literature each paper costs them 40
    46:30 bucks that's crazy uh and then even if they read the paper it's very hard to understand because we like scientists
    46:36 like to use jargon intentionally to obscure themes and uh and it's not right and so I
    46:42 I think that anyone who criticizes me is welcome to that opinion but I disagree I
    46:49 think more scientists should be out there talking about their research and trying to explain it in a way that is
    46:54 not only factual and understandable but also inspirational to get the next generation of scientists to get excited

    Resveratrol controversy

    47:00 too yeah no I look I I completely agree with you on the importance of inspirational
    47:06 and accurate scientific communication to the public without a doubt
    47:11 um but some of the concerns that I've uh I understand that that people have about
    47:17 your interactions um with the public I'll just give you an example
    47:22 um you know this one very well that in what was it in 2006 right I I I'm gonna
    47:30 give the background to folks and then I just would love to hear you tell us sort of where we are with this
    47:35 um controversy I guess that in 2006 you had this groundbreaking research on uh
    47:40 Resveratrol um that I believe is a molecule found in red wine
    47:46 and did a lot of interviews because of course it was fascinating science and it captured the interests of of the general
    47:52 public including um an interview on 60 Minutes where you said uh that we could expect a a pill in
    48:00 five years time that would essentially um you know be a a Resveratrol pill and
    48:06 you also talked to another reporter who said that uh Resveratrol was as close to
    48:11 miraculous molecule as you could find but a few years later other scientists and two Pharma companies uh couldn't rep
    48:19 replicate your results but then you you there was another paper that was
    48:24 published in 2013 that verified your results so I'm just wondering where is
    48:30 the has that been resolved yet about whether or not Resveratrol was the
    48:35 miracle molecule that you said it would be uh yeah it it turns out science is
    48:41 difficult making drugs is difficult and so while I was saying if all goes well we'll have a drug in five years
    48:46 I was overly optimistic I didn't realize how difficult it is to make a drug
    48:52 um I did though say there's no guarantee and and it came up against number of headwinds uh one of which was this
    48:59 debate that came up in the Pharma world I was trapped between two pharmaceutical companies at the time it was GSK who had
    49:05 purchased my in our Labs intellectual property um and then Pfizer who is challenging
    49:11 that and you know it's not that much fun being sandwiched between two of the largest companies in the world debating
    49:16 your work uh but what what ended up happening was uh the Pfizer scientists
    49:22 who said that the theory and the mechanism was wrong uh actually it turns out it was a good
    49:28 thing because we were forced to go back to the lab and hunker down and and test
    49:34 where we write or were we not and it was about how the molecule actually works on the enzyme to the atomic level so we're
    49:40 talking about real details here um and we did the work and to it was three years later we published a paper
    49:46 in science 2013 uh showing evidence that we were right
    49:52 uh and we've since been validated so the controversy over that setback has been
    49:58 okay so you know we've shown that the original Discovery was true
    50:03 um and that Pfizer was wrong so that's all good but unfortunately along the way that that controversy led to doubts
    50:10 about the drugs and even though we had positive data in a a phase two study in
    50:17 psoriasis the skin condition with molecules that were like Resveratrol even better a thousand times more potent
    50:23 the program was abandoned because I think because of the politics that happened so unfortunately that died on
    50:30 the vine but there are lots of other companies that I've been involved with and started that are keeping that flame
    50:37 well and truly alive so so to help again to clarify um
    50:42 yeah politics can actually undermine research for sure but it was your lab that was able to to you went back and
    50:50 looked at it and verified the results again at the atomic level in that 2013 paper you're talking about right did I
    50:55 hear that correctly that that was right yeah has any other lab thereafter been able to do that you're
    51:01 suggesting I'm suggesting that I just want to know
    51:06 yeah yeah it's it's been well and truly validated by others that have done
    51:12 Crystal structures and it's all good um and we have a paper that we're working on now where we've changed a
    51:17 mouse to at the atomic level so that they don't uh respond to the red wine
    51:23 molecule uh just by making that one amino acid change in the Target enzyme and uh and they don't live longer they
    51:30 don't run further on a treadmill and that'll be the punctuation mark on that story of my career


    51:40 um move to some audience questions here because we've got several good ones someone wants to know is immortality
    51:47 biologically possible yeah I think we're only constrained by
    51:53 our imagination um you said uh that aging is inevitable
    51:58 the last line of my book is nothing is inevitable even aging and so I I believe
    52:05 there is nothing that stops US from being long-lived I'm not going to say Immortal
    52:12 because it that's really quite an extreme but there is something in between where we can live
    52:18 over a hundred and still have a vibrant life and be productive members of society that is definitely within reach
    52:25 um perhaps even within our lifetimes yeah someone uh else wants to know how do you suggest we


    52:32 can keep people from misusing this advancement in science and technology and and I'll add um a little Coda to
    52:38 that um what can we do to prevent these these advancements from
    52:47 just further exacerbating inequalities that we already have because I feel like
    52:53 oftentimes this kind of Cutting Edge science in its first iterations
    52:59 really goes to the benefit of of a small few well the good news is that the kind of
    53:05 changes that we know can help with longevity and health actually save money you know eat eating
    53:11 quality vegetables uh and less often or at least in a window
    53:17 that's an easy change to make for most of us not everyone has access to really healthy food but most of us do exercise
    53:23 that's relatively free um so it these things these little
    53:28 changes are available now if you if you want to talk about gene therapy yeah these Technologies do start out expense
    53:35 in the same way that to fly in the first airplanes was expensive um and prices have come down a little
    53:41 bit uh but uh you know all Technologies think about how much it costs to have a flat screen TV 20 years ago this is the
    53:49 normal course of of human advancement and it's it's okay initially that the prices
    53:56 are high as long as you can rapidly get them down and my goal in developing drugs is to get the price down as fast
    54:03 as possible so one of the companies that I co-founded that's here called metrobiotech is making a a drug that
    54:10 really shouldn't cost that much it like a drug called metformin which is a potential anti-aging longevity drug it
    54:17 should cost only a dollar per day if that to produce such I'm hoping that
    54:23 once things once drugs are made and to be cheaply made and even eventually will
    54:29 of course go off patterned they will be as cheap as aspirin and available to everybody on the planet
    54:36 there are already 8 billion humans on the planet um
    54:41 if if let's say we do achieve a future in the near future where where the human
    54:48 lifespan is 150 if not more years I don't I can't say that I know how that
    54:53 would impact population growth rates but do you think that even like our economies could support
    55:00 um could support that we have to do something about aging the economies cannot afford not to tackle
    55:07 age out we are now in a world where population is declining across a lot of
    55:12 the world there are a few Pockets hot spots of population growth but we're going to top out at 10 billion people and start to
    55:19 decline already we're in a really bad place in um in the US we're already
    55:25 declining in in fertility places like Japan Italy China they're going to face
    55:31 an economic crisis uh within about a decade if they don't do something about it and Elon Musk has talked about this
    55:37 so I won't believe at that point but what's really often misunderstood is that by allowing people to live
    55:44 healthier longer lives it's a huge saving for the economy I was fortunate
    55:50 to team up with a couple of economists in London and we calculated that just extending lifespan healthy lifespan by a year in
    55:57 the U.S would save 86 trillion dollars in the long run and if you save lives
    56:04 for 10 years it's 365 trillion these are Big Numbers these These are dollars that
    56:09 could be put towards improving education and tackling climate change yeah you

    Healthy Lifespan

    56:15 know I have to say deeply appreciate the specificity with you with which you said healthy lifespans right because it's not
    56:21 just living longer what good does it do us if we live longer but we're still experiencing many years of ill of ill
    56:28 health but um I'm out of time here but I have one last question for you though
    56:34 near the beginning of our conversation um you said something which has really
    56:40 stuck with me you said that aging is the worst thing that could
    56:45 happen to us um and I'm still also thinking about the
    56:51 the Deep feeling that you have about having lost your your grandmother right
    56:57 I mean like people we love when we lose them it stays with us uh
    57:02 in reading about your research and reading your book and reading how you approach
    57:08 um your life's work there's something of the Peter Pan about you
    57:13 and I and I don't mean that in a derogatory way I mean that like you're
    57:20 uh there's a there's a dream that you have
    57:25 and can you how how do you respond to that
    57:33 uh I don't think there's anything wrong with that yeah uh no not with the dream

    Dying is not pleasant

    57:39 but it's it's almost like it's taking you um
    57:44 you're a mat you're imagining a world which I I do have to say is uh both
    57:50 exciting and I'm not actually sure I want to be a part of well that No One's Gonna Force you be
    57:58 part of it but I guarantee when you start to feel the effects of old age you are gonna call me
    58:03 [Laughter] um we often forget that the person 20 30
    58:10 years from now is is us right we think of that as someone else that's that's old me who cares but it is us you know
    58:18 I'm now 53 and I'm still the same person I was when I was 20 and I wish I could tell my 20 year old self to eat better
    58:25 and exercise more and that's going to happen to all of us all of us will die
    58:31 unless one of my students has a real breakthrough but uh most likely we're all going to die and it's not going to
    58:36 be pleasant we have to admit that dying is not pleasant I've seen now two people
    58:42 die my mother died really not a very pleasant way uh in
    58:47 front of the family and I was thinking why doesn't anyone tell you about this why do we talk about
    58:54 what it's like to die um and if if we don't fight against something like that
    58:59 what what are we fighting for really I disagree I do no I do and and again
    59:05 this is not I'm not taking issue with your science there's something very Western about hearing someone say dying is not
    59:12 pleasant because there are other cultures and traditions in humanity that
    59:18 seed dying as yet another phase of life and for people I would say dying is not
    59:25 pleasant in American hospitals for sure but that doesn't have to be how we die
    59:32 well you've had illness and also dying for this for those who are left behind
    59:37 it is not pleasant the tragedy of the loss is not pleasant but we don't
    59:43 necessarily know for those people who had the kind of death that they want if that wasn't pleasant for them
    59:51 well definitely wasn't pleasant my mother who suffocated to death in front of us now if I could have granted my
    59:58 mother an extra 20 years of life healthy even an extra year of life I would have done so and you've had
    1:00:04 sickness and illness and death in your family what would you have done to make that less painful or even have an extra
    1:00:12 year or two with your loved one no I you know what I'm I'm pushing you so I I'll I will engage with you on this question
    1:00:18 because it's only fair that you asked me my father so my my mother has peritoneal cancer
    1:00:25 she's 77. uh she was very very healthy until this summer uh was diagnosed with
    1:00:32 the cancer and was actually doing fine um until she had surgery she had surgery again I would say it's a hospital system
    1:00:39 that was the problem not necessarily her cancer um anyway she was in the ICU for several
    1:00:45 weeks she's actually doing much much better now my father who was extremely healthy
    1:00:53 um had high blood pressure so not per not in perfect health but had high blood pressure almost 80. the stress
    1:00:58 of watching his wife of 52 years suffer the way she did in the ICU just two days
    1:01:05 before she was released from the hospital my father was in my mother's
    1:01:11 hospital room and he had a heart attack and died
    1:01:16 so so and he died within 12 hours I mean he was actually at the hospital so they
    1:01:22 came to him within one minute went to the ER he had he had surgery they put three stents in they still couldn't
    1:01:28 support his blood pressure because we knew what his wishes were he did not wish to be to have prolonged
    1:01:35 life support so we we had to make the decision we did but I give that as background because you asked a question
    1:01:40 you asked me a question what would I want for my father because he's the one who passed away
    1:01:46 the way he died is exactly how he would have wanted to die because it was quick to your point he
    1:01:53 didn't suffer for a long time I being the person one of the people left behind I just want him to be a live
    1:01:58 longer right like I'd love him to be alive but I actually think that those are two different things
    1:02:06 what would he have wanted if you said I could give you something to be with us another 20 years of healthy life what
    1:02:11 would he have said well if of course he would he would have said yes yeah so if I had a medicine that you
    1:02:16 could give your give to your father and it would reverse his heart disease and by the way I should have said I'm very sorry that's okay don't worry it's fine
    1:02:23 it's terrible he's with me yeah I'm sure so then the question to you is would you
    1:02:31 deny your father that oh well no no I'm I'm not in the business of saying that people should or
    1:02:36 you know shouldn't because he he like you said he I can I should
    1:02:41 make my decisions he he should make his I'm not sure knowing him I'm not sure he would have wanted to though
    1:02:47 so well you know I I can only guess now here's what I've noticed about uh being
    1:02:53 in this in this business for a while is that a lot of people I talk to say I don't want to grow old so shoot me
    1:03:01 when I'm 80. there's someone a doctor who even says that prominent doctor my father's now 83 and I think he would
    1:03:07 disagree with that sentiment and he has no aches pains diseases he doesn't even need glasses for driving at night in a
    1:03:14 car and he's been doing the kind of things that I talk about now we don't know if that's the reason he's living
    1:03:19 longer and being healthy we do know that most of the men his age are already in
    1:03:24 the ground um he's a Beacon of Hope for all of us that we can adjust our lives to be able
    1:03:30 to be to thrive in our 80s and Beyond and I know that he is grateful to have
    1:03:36 stuck around even beyond what my mother how long my mother lasted and he's getting to see his great grandkids sorry
    1:03:42 he's uh his grandkids now go to college and maybe he will see his great-grandkids as well and that's um
    1:03:49 that's the life that I think most people should at least have the choice to have I think that you don't have to opt in
    1:03:55 but uh the way life is right now where we can get sick in our 50s like my mother and suffer for 20 years that's
    1:04:03 not a life well lived my grandmother also was sick you know for 10 years I look forward to a time when we can
    1:04:09 choose when we want to die and how we want to die and it hopefully will be as quick and painless for everybody as
    1:04:15 possible and I think that tackling aging is the best way to get us into that future rather than addressing the symptoms of
    1:04:22 Aging which is really just putting Band-Aids on a solution and really causing long-term suffering for many
    1:04:27 people well Dr Sinclair I really want to give you my deepest thanks for sharing your
    1:04:33 research with us and for yeah for for going there with me tonight
    1:04:40 thank you so very much for for being here with me thank you