2022-08-28 - Interview Dr. David Sinclair - Optimize Longevity - Aging: DNA is not your destiny. Food is

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    - Which purely genetic factors play into aging - What we've learned from the longest living mammals and how we can apply that to our life-lengthening mechanisms - Plant-based diets and longevity - Antioxidants - Supplementing with NAD, NR, & NMN, metformin, and berberine - Cutting sugar


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    0:00 how does fasting work
    0:02 how is it how does it fit into different
    0:04 people's lifestyles when should you
    0:06 start does it matter your sex does it
    0:09 matter if you work out these kind of
    0:11 things i think most people they don't
    0:12 want just one size fits all because they
    0:14 know that right fasting isn't for
    0:16 everybody and it's different for
    0:17 everybody to be affected
    0:21 [Music]
    0:41 okay great okay so i i've already uh
    0:44 i've already sort of you know reminded
    0:46 everybody about what we're talking about
    0:47 today
    0:48 uh and that we're gonna try and focus
    0:50 the next 20 to 30 minutes on just
    0:53 fasting and their questions specifically
    0:55 about fasting i know that there are
    0:57 questions about everything else that you
    0:59 talk about
    1:00 um
    1:01 nmn and you know all the things but
    1:03 we're really going to try and focus on
    1:05 fasting today so that
    1:07 we can give you guys a handful of
    1:10 takeaways that you can you know leave
    1:12 this with and then i have a little
    1:14 surprise for you guys at the end
    1:17 um but i went to the end so to show you
    1:20 guys so should you one why don't you
    1:23 start because obviously you're the
    1:24 expert here i will address some things
    1:26 about fasting and female health and
    1:29 fertility but
    1:30 we can get to that um you know towards
    1:33 the latter half
    1:34 great
    1:35 well it's great to be back on hi
    1:37 everyone thanks for
    1:38 joining it's nice to see you and uh yeah
    1:42 so today we're going to have a pretty
    1:43 quick uh session about fasting you and i
    1:46 uh have been talking about fasting for a
    1:48 long time um
    1:50 we talk about it a lot and we have
    1:52 actually we have some different views
    1:54 i'm i'm a male
    1:55 um sometimes i work out
    1:58 we're different ages and so really the
    2:00 the question i think we should talk
    2:01 about is
    2:03 uh
    2:03 how does fasting work
    2:06 how is it how does it fit into different
    2:07 people's lifestyles when should you
    2:10 start does it matter your sex does it
    2:12 matter if you work out these kind of
    2:14 things i think most people they don't
    2:16 want just one size fits all because they
    2:17 know that right fasting isn't for
    2:19 everybody and it's different for
    2:21 everybody to be affected
    2:23 and actually i'd like to really
    2:24 emphasize that because some people don't
    2:26 actually know that so and that's
    2:28 definitely what we're here to sort of
    2:30 highlight that it isn't one size fit all
    2:33 um
    2:34 keep that in mind
    2:37 well yeah so i started um skipping meals
    2:40 when i was
    2:41 in my 20s actually and so often i'm
    2:43 asked
    2:44 when
    2:45 should people start and the answer i
    2:47 think is
    2:49 well in your 20s actually you can start
    2:52 not eating three full meals a day
    2:55 especially if you are a nice healthy
    2:58 weight we're not talking about of course
    3:00 today we're not talking about
    3:01 malnutrition or or starvation that's
    3:03 very important to to make that point but
    3:06 what
    3:06 i've like to do in my whole life is to
    3:09 gradually reduce
    3:11 um
    3:12 not just how much i eat because i'm
    3:13 actually slowing down in my metabolism
    3:15 now 53 as of
    3:17 a couple of days ago
    3:19 but i also think it's important to
    3:21 gradually increase the period where you
    3:24 don't eat and re
    3:25 shorten the period where you do eat and
    3:27 that's what i would like to cover today
    3:31 agree we're on the same page with that
    3:34 yeah so i've um
    3:36 i i started my life in my 20s doing a
    3:39 lot of exercise i was working out at the
    3:40 gym
    3:41 i needed a lot of energy so i was eating
    3:44 um
    3:45 regular three meals a day and then i
    3:46 decided
    3:47 well you know i'm not hungry in the
    3:48 morning so let me just skip breakfast
    3:50 and see what happens and put my calories
    3:52 into the later part of the day
    3:54 uh and that worked really well for me i
    3:56 didn't have this morning
    3:58 fog brain fog uh and i could power
    4:00 through the day i could learn my my
    4:02 lectures or uh not fall asleep during
    4:05 lectures in college
    4:07 and uh and so i've done that most of my
    4:08 life i'd rarely eat a big breakfast or
    4:11 breakfast at all and i think that's a
    4:13 that's a good way to start if you're
    4:15 young and you're considering trying to
    4:17 reduce the window of when you eat you
    4:19 could either eat uh later in the day so
    4:22 start eating a an early lunch or a
    4:25 a lunch only
    4:27 um and then uh or if you if you don't
    4:29 don't like to skip breakfast you can
    4:31 actually uh skip
    4:33 dinner or at least reduce
    4:35 how late you eat but what you want to do
    4:37 and certainly we talk about this a lot
    4:38 is so if it's a clock you want to have
    4:42 an extended period that includes sleep
    4:44 because sleep is the easiest time to
    4:45 fast by far so either
    4:48 try to extend the time in the morning
    4:49 when you don't eat or at night before
    4:52 you go to bed
    4:54 um no i i absolutely agree and you know
    4:57 there are a few other factors that i
    4:58 factor into it as well
    5:00 and something i've chatted about with a
    5:02 colleague of mine who's you know the the
    5:05 sleep doctor uh but sometimes you know
    5:08 the time of the day that you're born can
    5:10 affect your personal circadian rhythm
    5:12 obviously there is a circadian rhythm
    5:14 that we go by because of you know the
    5:16 sun
    5:17 um
    5:18 but
    5:19 it's really about the window that you
    5:21 eat and the window that you fast and so
    5:23 for different people it's different
    5:25 things as you said for some people it's
    5:27 easier if you skip wrappers for some
    5:29 people it's easier you skip dinner
    5:33 the hours that you allow your body to
    5:37 to just digest and rest and be in a
    5:41 state where it's not in abundance as you
    5:43 always talk about uh david where it
    5:45 feels like it's in lack and
    5:48 for those people who are jumping on for
    5:49 the first time who don't really know why
    5:51 we would fast at all um you know maybe
    5:54 you can give like two or three sentences
    5:56 of why fasting is good for you why it's
    5:59 great for longevity what is happening
    6:01 with your body in your body when you're
    6:03 fasting
    6:04 yeah
    6:06 well it's been known for thousands of
    6:08 years that societies who have a fasting
    6:10 period
    6:11 are more disease resistant and healthier
    6:13 in the long run so it's a tradition but
    6:16 science over the last 70 years has shown
    6:19 that reducing not just the number of
    6:21 calories but actually when you eat
    6:24 is super important for longevity and in
    6:26 in rodent studies where most of these
    6:28 studies have been done and a few in
    6:29 monkeys and a few in humans but the
    6:32 rodent studies are very clear these are
    6:34 these are the conclusions
    6:36 that if you restrict the time period
    6:39 during the day which you give an animal
    6:42 uh to when they can eat it has a huge
    6:44 impact on their health and their
    6:46 longevity if you say okay let's take the
    6:48 same number of calories and spread it
    6:50 out throughout the entire
    6:52 waking day or for a mouse waking night
    6:55 it doesn't work as well you get a little
    6:57 bit of health if you reduce calories but
    6:59 it's more important
    7:01 uh when you eat
    7:03 um and it's also
    7:04 of course it's important what you eat
    7:06 it's you can't just eat terrible food
    7:08 and expect to get away with it but there
    7:10 was a an amazing study done by a friend
    7:12 of mine down at the national institutes
    7:14 of health rafa to cover
    7:16 and he thought that he could find the
    7:17 optimal diet for a mouse and he put in
    7:19 different quantities of protein and
    7:21 carbohydrates and fats
    7:23 and after studying over 10 000 mice
    7:25 found that
    7:26 it really didn't matter what they ate so
    7:28 much they're all healthy relatively
    7:29 healthy diets but the combination of
    7:32 ingredients didn't matter it was
    7:33 actually when they eat and it was eight
    7:35 during the day and it was the the one
    7:37 hour window that they got that these
    7:38 mice lived a whopping 35 percent which
    7:41 is a
    7:42 imagine we could do that um and so that
    7:45 and other studies looking at
    7:47 the amount of calories and when the mice
    7:50 typically
    7:51 has told us that very likely
    7:54 we're eating too often
    7:56 and that's why we fast we believe that
    7:57 when we're in a state of adversity or at
    8:00 least perceived adversity our bodies
    8:02 turn on protective genes they turn on
    8:05 the sertum genes that we've worked on
    8:07 for 20 something years and there are
    8:09 other genes such as mtor gets down
    8:11 regulated ampk gets upregulated and
    8:14 these are longevity genes that protect
    8:16 the body we know this from from many
    8:19 many studies over the years in animals
    8:21 and in humans that there are longevity
    8:23 genes that protect us and if we sit
    8:25 around and we're always full or at least
    8:27 we're snacking on bars during the day
    8:29 and we're not moving our bodies say
    8:31 that's great we don't need to worry we
    8:33 can exhaust our
    8:35 our uh
    8:36 our bodies early our reproductive
    8:38 systems will actually age more
    8:40 prematurely
    8:41 um someone raised the question about
    8:44 fertility and i know you'll talk about
    8:46 it later serena the
    8:48 one study that was fascinating was that
    8:50 mice that didn't uh that restricted
    8:52 their feeding the females actually even
    8:54 though their fertility uh was not as
    8:57 abundant they did extend the period at
    8:59 which they were fertile so it does seem
    9:01 like there's this trade-off between
    9:03 calories longevity and fertility which
    9:05 we'll get into more later but really
    9:08 what i'm saying is you just want to make
    9:10 your body have a little bit of a threat
    9:13 to survival so it fights against aging
    9:16 yeah and so for anyone who's new to our
    9:19 chats uh when dr st clara says adversity
    9:23 um and threat
    9:25 you know what he's saying is when we're
    9:27 not putting food into our bodies when um
    9:30 we're restricting that kind of food and
    9:33 intake
    9:35 our bodies feel like um it's it's in
    9:38 luck and it's it's in adversity and so
    9:42 that's for anyone who's new to our type
    9:44 of chats that's that's what he that's
    9:46 what he's referring to um and um that's
    9:50 you know that's why it's good for long
    9:52 longevity um in addition to that
    9:55 i was just gonna add that um it's
    9:57 similar to the effects of exercise and
    10:00 cold therapy and hot uh you know and and
    10:02 sauna these are all the types of
    10:04 adversity that we're learning
    10:06 uh puts the body into a defensive state
    10:09 that fights disease
    10:10 yeah and and um again for any newbies
    10:13 out there it also means like when we're
    10:15 stressing our bodies that when it sort
    10:17 of perceives stress like you know how
    10:19 cold punch can feel like
    10:21 awful you know when you're in it until
    10:23 you're out of it or
    10:25 uh you know the type of exercise that
    10:27 seems like a really taxing your body is
    10:29 and of course when we're fasting and we
    10:31 may feel like we're starving ourselves
    10:33 it's that stress and that sense of
    10:35 adversity that we're giving our bodies
    10:37 alongside that we're also allowing our
    10:40 bodies to kind of heal you know giving
    10:43 it a break to
    10:45 um
    10:46 you know to kind of rest recover detox
    10:50 um which supports other benefits it
    10:52 supports gut health it supports brain
    10:54 health it supports our immunity all
    10:56 which lead to uh longevity and lifespan
    11:00 so so so now that you know there's a
    11:02 little bit of background for people who
    11:04 maybe aren't don't know you know what
    11:06 we're talking about today and just
    11:07 happen to jump on uh let's talk a little
    11:10 bit about the windows uh
    11:12 i don't have my messages here but just
    11:14 you know what feels good um what what 12
    11:17 and 12 mean
    11:19 what 16 and 8 mean i know that you've
    11:21 also talked about um you know 20
    11:25 and 4 even uh and so and so if if there
    11:29 are differences on average and i know we
    11:31 talked we said it's individualistic
    11:33 um but just to give some people some
    11:35 insight so that they can figure out what
    11:37 works for them and how to figure out
    11:39 what works for them
    11:41 right so if you hear these numbers that
    11:43 serena just mentioned they're talking
    11:45 about the window of eating so
    11:48 uh for instance the the 16-hour window
    11:50 you'll hear people talk about that
    11:53 typically means you want to skip or
    11:54 you're skipping breakfast and having a
    11:56 late lunch
    11:58 which is what a lot of people can do
    12:00 um if you go further you can do 18 hours
    12:02 a day
    12:03 and some people go to 20 hours a day
    12:06 and then you just you know four hours is
    12:07 still
    12:08 you know one meal and it's all also
    12:10 called omad is our one meal a day
    12:13 um but importantly i i always want to
    12:16 put um with adequate nutrition
    12:18 so if it's confusing to you one then the
    12:21 larger number is the number as the our
    12:25 the larger number applies to the hours
    12:26 that you're not eating so 16 would be
    12:29 the hours that you're not eating and
    12:30 then um eight would be the hours that
    12:33 you can eat
    12:34 yeah and so that's what we're referring
    12:36 to when we're talking about the numbers
    12:38 and
    12:39 dr sinclair was talking about one meal a
    12:41 day
    12:42 we differs just slightly there because
    12:45 i'm really more about eating within that
    12:47 window and it can all come in one meal
    12:50 as
    12:51 david said if you get a nutritionally
    12:53 dense meal and if you you can't get it
    12:56 all in one meal it's okay to have more
    12:58 than one meal just as long as within the
    13:00 eating window of you know eight hours or
    13:04 six hours or four hours whatever it is
    13:06 that you're doing
    13:08 yeah you also want to match your fitting
    13:09 to your circadian rhythms uh it turns
    13:12 out these longevity genes that we work
    13:14 on the sartunes they actually control
    13:16 the clock and if you've ever heard me
    13:17 talk about nad this molecule that
    13:20 is essential for life and longevity it
    13:22 also goes up and down with the day
    13:25 and
    13:26 what you eat controls your nad levels
    13:28 and if you start to eat
    13:30 fairly uh irregularly let's say one day
    13:33 your breakfast the other day you have
    13:34 you you know you skip breakfast and then
    13:36 you eat a big dinner and the next day
    13:37 you skip dinner it'll it'll make it's
    13:40 not as good as being consistent actually
    13:42 because what's going to happen is that
    13:43 your your sleep wake cycle and your nad
    13:46 cycle is going to get out of whack and
    13:48 you might even feel jet lagged
    13:49 um
    13:50 so that that's an important thing and
    13:52 there was actually a study in mice that
    13:54 if they they fed the mice in periods
    13:56 when they would not normally eat let's
    13:58 say they only gave them some food uh
    14:00 when they were asleep and made them go
    14:02 and get that food they didn't live
    14:04 longer so
    14:05 timing of this is very important so i
    14:07 try
    14:08 most days to match it and so i like to
    14:11 eat most of my calories if i can
    14:14 around dinner time try not to go too
    14:16 late if possible uh and then fast
    14:18 through the night and have very small
    14:20 amounts of food up until then if
    14:23 possible oh and i just want to mention
    14:25 if possible because i'm not perfect at
    14:27 this you know you've seen me eat before
    14:30 i
    14:31 typically have a little bit of yogurt in
    14:32 the morning because i have polyphenols
    14:34 that are insoluble and i mix that so
    14:38 it's okay to have a little a few bits of
    14:40 calories you can have a coffee with a
    14:41 bit of milk this is not going to break
    14:44 it fast terribly and your body will
    14:45 still i believe and the results say from
    14:48 the lab that you'll still still get the
    14:50 benefits
    14:51 but often when you're starting these uh
    14:53 how about we talk about how difficult
    14:55 this is and how to make it easier
    14:57 yeah that's actually that's that's great
    14:59 um to kind of segue there for people who
    15:02 you know for those of you who um
    15:05 are just used to having breakfast every
    15:07 single day that's sort of how you're
    15:09 brought up how you're raised how what
    15:10 your knows kind of part of your your
    15:12 rituals and and how you go about your
    15:15 day i think an easier way to start would
    15:17 be try for 12 hours and as david said
    15:20 include your sleep time so if you're
    15:23 sleeping for
    15:24 uh
    15:25 you know eight hours or or six hours or
    15:28 seven hours all you have to do is
    15:30 bookend it so that means starting your
    15:33 fast you know plus
    15:35 one plus or minus one or two or three
    15:38 hours before you go to bed and then
    15:40 adding on those other hours plus or
    15:42 minus on the on the other end of
    15:44 sleeping so
    15:46 again if you sleep for eight hours and
    15:48 you want to try fasting for 12 then that
    15:51 means you just stop eating for two hours
    15:53 before the that sleep period of eight
    15:56 hours and then you add in two hours when
    15:58 you wake up where you don't eat and then
    16:00 really that's that's 12 hours and you
    16:03 really only make an effort for
    16:05 you know for those hours and then it
    16:07 becomes easier to just add another hour
    16:10 and just add another hour and if you do
    16:12 it on the book ends it's much easier and
    16:14 it doesn't seem as stressful or as a
    16:17 strain
    16:18 so um
    16:19 so yeah
    16:23 yeah stephanie said it's easier than she
    16:25 thought so it really can be easier than
    16:27 than it sounds
    16:29 um just to answer a couple of questions
    16:31 that have come up um i do
    16:33 occasionally have drinks in the morning
    16:34 athletic greens is one
    16:37 i've checked my blood glucose levels
    16:38 they don't go up at all when i drink it
    16:40 so for me
    16:42 i'm getting the vitamins and it's very
    16:43 low glycemic index
    16:45 someone asked me what about a 72-hour
    16:47 fast rust asked about it 72 hour faster
    16:50 are often done by people who really want
    16:53 to get a deep cleanse 72 hours is when
    16:56 deep autophagy or recycling of proteins
    16:59 it's called
    17:00 kicks in
    17:02 i've never actually been able to do that
    17:04 i can only go for a day
    17:07 but there are some people who can do 72
    17:09 hours and i think that if you do that
    17:11 i would say every couple of weeks i
    17:14 would or maybe a month is more more
    17:16 reasonable um that would be great
    17:19 biologically to be able to clear out the
    17:20 body
    17:21 yeah and we can actually talk a little
    17:24 bit more about that if you guys have an
    17:25 interest there are seven you know
    17:27 24-hour fast 72-hour fast five days
    17:30 seven days and people have done 10 and
    17:31 30 days there are different ways to do
    17:34 fast like that um and different ways to
    17:37 support your body when you are doing
    17:38 fast like that and so i'd want to dive
    17:40 into that properly so that you guys have
    17:43 the tools and the information to support
    17:45 you um but yes there are obviously
    17:48 benefits so as long as you do it the
    17:49 right way um and and
    17:52 water and liquids are super important in
    17:54 any yeah you have to stay super hydrated
    17:57 uh
    17:58 so
    17:59 so yes um okay so covered that uh i know
    18:03 that some people
    18:04 uh about women's health i know we're
    18:06 kind of coming up on time so i did want
    18:09 to address some of that um about women's
    18:12 health and
    18:13 how to fast and as david brought up
    18:16 earlier it's different for women and men
    18:18 so how a man can fast is definitely
    18:21 different than how a woman can and he
    18:23 also brought up how it can affect
    18:25 fertility so you know as females we
    18:29 require different nutrients at different
    18:31 times of the day different times of the
    18:32 month and it does have to do with our
    18:34 hormones um and
    18:37 we kind of have to modify this
    18:39 throughout our lifespan
    18:40 through the different chapters so as
    18:42 people move into menopause
    18:43 pre-menopausal so
    18:46 cycling is sort of the best way in terms
    18:48 of fasting for women so the first and
    18:52 second weeks of your cycle you do want
    18:54 to do some sort of fasting um
    18:57 and that's and that's sort of your bleed
    18:59 week and bleed after and a week after um
    19:03 for lack of a better term
    19:05 sorry all our to our male audience um
    19:08 but during these times we're much more
    19:10 resilient to
    19:12 um carbohydrate restriction so you want
    19:15 to be eating foods that are more for
    19:17 estrogen metabolism during that time and
    19:19 you want to prioritize those type of
    19:22 carbohydrates in the form of fiber-rich
    19:24 foods um we've talked about that before
    19:26 and we have content on that and we can
    19:28 dive into more detail if you want on
    19:30 another time um but that's sort of what
    19:33 you should keep in mind when you are
    19:35 fasting
    19:36 and what you're eating during the fast
    19:39 and so and then your second week um your
    19:42 anabolic hormones they go up which is
    19:45 your estrogen and your testosterone and
    19:47 so you need to increase your protein
    19:48 intake a little bit and that can come in
    19:50 the form of animal protein or implant
    19:54 protein but just to be more mindful of
    19:56 that and then in your third and fourth
    19:58 fourth week which is your ovulation week
    20:00 um your luteal week
    20:02 your body is in sort of a different
    20:04 hormonal environment and so
    20:07 you want to kind of focus more on
    20:10 resistant starches and when so when
    20:12 you're fasting to keep those things in
    20:14 mind you can't be as aggressive we can't
    20:17 be like the boys unfortunately because
    20:19 if we're a little bit too aggressive we
    20:21 fast for too long of a period of time we
    20:24 keep our body in ketosis we can actually
    20:26 produce more reverse t3 um and that's
    20:29 not what we want to do you can even make
    20:31 yourself insulin resistant so as females
    20:33 we just have to be more mindful and be a
    20:35 little bit more gentle um when we
    20:39 during the different weeks of the month
    20:40 um in our ovulation in our cycles so
    20:43 that's what i would say and it's not a
    20:44 blanket for everyone it's just to keep
    20:47 those things in mind and to support
    20:48 yourself while you're fasting um with
    20:50 those type of foods
    20:52 and i think we're coming up close to
    20:54 time so i know there's a lot more
    20:56 fasting for vegan women i'm vegan i fast
    21:00 i do intermittent this intermittent
    21:02 fasting that we're talking about i try
    21:04 to pretty much do it every single day
    21:06 some days i fall off that's okay um but
    21:09 it's pretty much a daily a daily thing
    21:11 minimum of 12 i
    21:14 i target 16 and that happens most days
    21:17 of the week
    21:18 uh and just to make sure that i get in
    21:21 those foods during specific weeks of the
    21:23 month
    21:25 i was just called a beast i'm not sure
    21:27 if that's a compliment or not but uh
    21:28 thank you anyway uh just a few things
    21:30 i've seen come up i'll quickly address
    21:32 during a for lack of time uh and a man
    21:35 and a man i take it in the morning i
    21:37 don't take it at night because you want
    21:38 your nad levels to go up in the morning
    21:40 otherwise you'll you'll probably feel
    21:42 jet lag i take it with water you don't
    21:44 need food with that
    21:45 i'm currently taking a gram at
    21:48 uh well half a gram of day i've reduced
    21:49 it recently but i used to take the gram
    21:51 a day
    21:53 resveratrol i still take that in the
    21:54 morning with my nmn in the yogurt
    21:56 because that gives me my
    21:58 my my boost that gives me the energy and
    22:00 uh
    22:01 matches the circadian rhythms
    22:03 um so yeah this is uh
    22:05 i think unfortunately running out of
    22:06 time straight away
    22:08 for another few hours i know i think
    22:10 we'll have to wrap it up i know that
    22:11 there's been a lot of comments um just
    22:14 about how much we can we can kind of get
    22:17 in into a chat and sometimes we don't
    22:20 answer all your questions the most
    22:22 helpful thing is to either send messages
    22:25 you can send it to the community app you
    22:26 can send it to uh
    22:29 two direct messages and just flag that
    22:31 these are questions that you'd like to
    22:32 have answered in the lives um actually
    22:35 the best thing you can do is when we
    22:37 share that we are doing a live i'm
    22:40 usually in stories or on a post
    22:42 drop your questions there and then
    22:44 that's really the ones that we're going
    22:45 to pull from um it's sort of the easiest
    22:48 for us and that way we can address
    22:49 questions and prepare for them because
    22:51 we do spend
    22:53 time and energy and love preparing for
    22:55 these for you guys so we want to serve
    22:57 you guys in the best way possible
    22:59 uh so that's it time does fly we're at
    23:02 30 minutes and so we're going to wrap it
    23:04 up but we are going to do more of these
    23:06 yes we will save this for later as
    23:07 always we edit we clean up and uh we
    23:10 reshare we repost uh and we still have
    23:13 our link up if you guys want to sign up
    23:15 uh for
    23:17 our series basically and get the notes
    23:19 from our chats
    23:21 and that there's a burning question i
    23:22 think that i i raised that somebody
    23:24 posted
    23:25 why would i reduce my animation levels
    23:28 oh
    23:29 this gizmo okay
    23:32 um and so the answer to that is um i'm
    23:35 trying different things i want to see
    23:36 what might work and i want to see if
    23:37 lower levels will make any difference
    23:39 it's an experiment and we'll see how
    23:41 things go
    23:42 okay great all right thanks so much
    23:44 david thank you guys and thank you for
    23:46 all the thank yous that i see here and
    23:48 we'll see you guys next time alright
    23:50 thanks
    23:51 bye everyone
    24:12 you
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